While I agree that guys who are too nice with women will most often lose a woman’s interest very quickly, I am also not a big fan of this whole idea of being a “challenge” with women like some sources of dating advice suggest you should follow. I never advocate waiting for 7 days or longer before you call or text a woman after you got her number, or making yourself “artificially” and purposely more busy and less available than you should be.
This is because I truly believe that when you understand the more fundamental principle of what makes men attractive to women, you won’t have to worry about being on purpose more difficult that you really are. And that principle is this: a woman develops attraction, romantic and sexual interest and love for a man not as much because of how he treats her but because of who he is as a person and as a man. How you treat a woman and how you make her feel when she is around you is of course important, but that’s only one, less significant part of the equation. In other words, being too nice, too sweet, accommodating, kind and generous with a woman alone, without the other elements of being an attractive and interesting man, is not going to make her more attracted to him.
On the other hand, when a man demonstrates qualities that make him come across as more masculine – confidence, sense of humor, charisma, being able to lead in typical every-day situations, physical and mental strength and sexual aggression at the right time and in the right place – those qualities will make a woman admire him as an individual more and as a result will make her more attracted to him.
Moreover, being overly nice, accommodating and kind to a woman will actually lead to the opposite result – it will make a woman less attracted to a guy and even be bored with him. I believe that an analogy between sexual encounter and any other interaction between a man and a woman is very helpful to understanding why being too nice with women is a big dating mistake. See, sex, the basic, most fundamental romantic interaction between a man and a woman, is an inherently “dirty” act. It is dirty because people and especially women enjoy it most when it’s NOT played by the conventional rules. Many passionate, feminine women would much rather being thrown against a wall, put on the kitchen table, have their hair pulled, being licked from head to toe and being otherwise physically / sexually dominated than being handled in a gentle, sweet, overly concerned manner all the time. I strongly believe that the things that a woman wants in her sex life are strongly indicative of what a woman desires to see in her partner – a man who is aggressive, decisive, and isn’t afraid to taking risks, while being an interesting, entertaining and at times unpredictable individual.
The movie “Flannel Pajamas” is a great example of how a guy who focuses his entire life on a woman’s needs and wants without demonstrating and developing his own character will eventually become annoying to his partner, no matter how sweet and humble she might be, and will eventually lose her. I highly recommend that you watch that movie so that you do not commit the same many mistakes when you meet a great woman who you want to love you and not lose interest in you as your relationship develops and evolves.
As you watch this movie, notice how the guy says at one point to his wife: “I am sorry, this won’t happen again, I promise,” and I hope you will be disgusted with hearing that as much as I was. While I am a big fan of apologizing when I am wrong, this is simply not the right way to say “I am sorry.” Also, pay special attention how, closer to the end of the movie, he compares himself to his brother and how he correctly points out why his brother is so much more successful at attracting women than he is.
I think nice guys do not have success with women because they are not interesting to them. For them nice guy= inexperienced guy. Being too nice will never create attraction! If you talk to a woman like you talk on a business interview you will never get that job! 🙂 That will most certainly lead you to a friend zone, and then, when you become just one of hers 500 friends, and when you have to fight with them for her attention, it’s game over man!
Also, being a challenge, but not a jerk, is not bad at all if a woman is a goal getter.
Thanks for your thoughts. I like how you put it about the job interview. Acting and talking on a date as if it was a job interview is one of the most common mistakes I observe around all the time among guys of all ages.
Well yeah, we all know what we do in a job interview: We prepare our answers and our questions ahead, we act so fake in order to impress our employer. We often lie that we are better than we really are, and what we really think about the company that offers that job. And finally, we are so stressed out that we can hardly wait to finish the damn interview! Especially now during the crisis…you know what I am talking about right??? 🙂 On a date you must behave totally opposite!!! You should be fun, relaxed, sincere, present at a moment, you should tease, touch, and you should be yourself and never try to impress like you do on a job interview. And the rest is all up to her my friend…
Totally, and the whole formal still behavior during a date is a really bad idea and is completely not conductive to creating any kind of romantic tension. These are usually missing an essential element – humor, a bit of playfulness and/or sarcasm.
Yup, I'm one of those nice guys. After I hit 35 I gave up trying. It's not the women, I'm just too damn nice and I couldn't change. I tried being an ass for a month but even I didn't like me then. Its more important that I like me more than any woman likes me. Being asexual for the past 17 years straight, and 22 of the past 23 years, I wouldn't know how to touch a real woman, nor do I want to anymore. Internet porn came to my rescue. I have a lot of women friends and that's what is important to me. Being a nice guy is appreciated by many people. I have a great dog that keeps me company.
@Anonymous:
Are you kidding??? A so-called nice guy can like himself, knows what he wants out of life and has the intestinal fortitude to go for it. Still most women will use the "niceness" tag as just one more reason not to give most guys the time of day.
The defense rests.
You hear it all the time: "He was such a NICE Guy, and she's such a Heartless Bitch for dumping him."
I get letters from self-professed Nice Guys, complaining that women must WANT to be treated like shit, because THEY, the "Nice Guy" have failed repeatedly in relationships. This is akin to the false logic that "Whales are mammals. Whales live in the sea. Therefore, all mammals live in the sea."
If you have one bad relationship after another, the only common denominator is YOU. Think about it.
What's wrong with Nice Guys? The biggest problem is that most Nice Guys ™ are hideously insecure. They are so anxious to be liked and loved that they do things for other people to gain acceptance and attention, rather than for the simply pleasure of giving. You never know if a Nice Guy really likes you for who you are, or if he has glommed onto you out of desperation because you actually paid some kind of attention to him.
Nice Guys exude insecurity — a big red target for the predators of the world. There are women out there who are "users" — just looking for a sucker to take advantage of. Users home-in on "Nice Guys", stroke their egos, take them for a ride, add a notch to their belts, and move on. It's no wonder so many Nice Guys complain about women being horrible, when the so often the kind of woman that gets attracted to them is the lowest form of life…
Self-confident, caring, decent-hearted women find "Nice Guys" to be too clingy, self-abasing, and insecure.
Nice Guys go overboard. They bring roses to a "lets get together for coffee" date. They try to buy her affections with presents and fancy things. They think they know about romance, but their timing is all wrong, and they either come-on too strong, too hard and too fast, OR, they are so shy and unassertive, that they hang around pretending to be "friends", in the hope that somehow, someway, they will get the courage up to ask her out for a "date".
They are so desperate to please that they put aside their own needs, and place the object of their desire on a pedestal. Instead of appreciating her, they worship her. We are only human, and pedestals are narrow, confining places to be — not to mention the fact that we tend to fall off of them.
They cling to her, and want to be "one" with her for fear that if she is out of sight, she may disappear or become attracted to someone else. A Nice Guy often has trouble with emotional intimacy, because he believes that if she learns about the REAL person inside, she will no longer love him.
Nice Guys are always asking HER to make the decisions. They think it's being equitable, but it puts an unfair burden of responsibility on her, and gives him the opportunity to blame her if the decision was an unwise one.
Nice Guys rarely speak up when something bothers them, and rarely state clearly what it is they want, need and expect. They fear that any kind of conflict might spell the end of the relationship. Instead of comprimising and negotiating, they repeatedly "give in". When she doesn't appreciate their sacrifice, they will complain that, "Everything I did, I did for her.", as if this somehow elevates them to the status of martyrs. A woman doesn't want a martyr. She wants an equal, caring, adult partner.
Nice Guys think that they will never meet anyone as special as she is. They use their adoration as a foundation for claiming that "no one will ever love her as much as I do." Instead of being a profound statement of their devotion, this is a subtle, but nasty insult. It is akin to saying to her: "You are a difficult person, and only *I* can ever truly love you, so be thankful I'm here."
The nice guy -needs- to believe that he is the best person for the object of his desires, because otherwise his insecurities will overrun him with jealousies and fear. The truth of the matter is that there are many people out there who can be a good match for her. We rarely stop loving people we truly care about. Even if we no longer continue the relationship, the feelings will continue… But love isn't mutually exclusive. We can (and do) love many people in our lives, and romantic love is really no different. Though he may love her immensely, there will likely be other people who have loved her just as much in her past, and will love her just as much in the future. The irony of it all is: "Who would want to go out with someone who was inherintly unlovable anyways?"
More than loving the woman in his life, a Nice Guy NEEDS her. "She is my Life, my only source of happiness…" YECH! What kind of a burden is that to place on her? That SHE has to be responsible for YOUR happiness? Get a grip!
Another mistake Nice Guys make is to go after "hard luck" cases. They deliberately pick women with neuroses, problems, and personality disorders, because Nice Guys are "helpers". A Nice Guy thinks that by "helping" this woman, it will make him a better, more lovable person. He thinks it will give him a sense of accomplishment, and that she will appreciate and love him more, for all his efforts and sacrifice. He is usually disappointed by the results.
This ultimately boils down to the fact that Nice Guys don't like themselves. Is it any wonder women don't like them? In order to truly love someone else, you must first love yourself. Too often Nice Guys mistake obsession for "love".
Get this Guys: INSECURITY ISN'T SEXY. IT'S A TURNOFF.
You don't have to be an ego-inflated, arrogant jerk. You just have to LIKE yourself. You have to know what you want out of life, and go after it. Only then will you be attractive to the kind of woman with whom a long-term relationship is possible.
This is the fact of the matter…
Nice guys will always finish last for the following reasons;
– Girls to a point want competition. Knowing we have won the race before it has begun is a race not worth running. ( Would an Olympic athlet bother to race against people he was already 100% guaranteed to win. Clearly he would rather race against someone who was going to challenge him and make him put in some effort.)
– Girls since the dawn of time have wanted the bad boy. ( Refer to the taming the wild beast saying). This then refers back to the lack off effort girls need to put in when it comes to dating the nice guy.
– Girls want to go through troubles, argugements and complications and over come them but with a nice guy the closest trouble you get to is them being late to pick you up which they will most likely compensate for with flowers. Ideally (most) women would start an argue ment which would lead to a heated battle of the sexes resulting in break up sex. While the guy giving his girl flowers will end up dropping his girl home and going home alone or falling asleep beside his girl with the lack of any passionate sexual activity.
Girls want to be able to go for the nice guy but unfortunate the majority of us see it as an easy battle with a nice guy and would rather go into war with an asshole who treats us like crap and will end up leaving us (but will be a realationship full of passion and effort on our end).
This could go on forever but I just thought I would reflect a little.
If that’s how you feel, then have a good time when you find out your “bad boy” lover was having sex with both your best friend AND your sister behind your back.
the problem today is that there are just too many LOW LIFE WOMEN, with a bad attitude problem today. not to mention that many of them are so very UNEDUCATED when it comes to meeting us guys.
I think there are varying degrees of nice that need to be addressed. No woman wants a complete asshole with no manners or consideration. On the other hand, a man that is too accommodating and overly gushy/sweet is a bit of a turnoff (not to mention a chick magnet for the complete domineering bitch). I’m not exactly sure what the happy medium is, but a manly man who is accommodating 50% of the time sounds about right to me! 🙂
This is a touchy subject. Touchy because WE men don't really know what women want half the times. So we drive ourselves nuts always trying to figure them out yet we never can for the simple reason that as men we ain't suppose to figure them out. Trying to figure out any woman takes away from the excitement of it all. Example: if you're a loner they want you to have more friends and go out more. Then, if you've got tons of friends and don't give her most of your attention she'll complain endlessly about that. Get it!? I think that the best thing to do is just find someone that's comparable to you. If you're a couch potato there's another couch potato just waiting for you, and if you like to party well then there are tons of party girls out there. Bottom line….. Not everyone-men or woman-is attracted to everyone. Peace!
You state that you dont give bad dating advice and a lot of the stuff you write is good but i really dont understand this ‘nice’ issue. In fact saying women like men to be aggressive and pull their hair in public is pretty bad dating advice. It also conflicts with so much more of your advice. Being nice is essential to maintaining and starting healthy relationships, discouraging encourages men to act arrogant which doesnt keep women intersted. Please people, being nice is definatly a good thing, brad pitt is nice to his partner and his fans. Only damaged goods type females would appeal to a man without manners and has anger problems, aggressiveness prevents career progression too so these men get sacked and dont have jobs, aggressiveness is not good and is bad for society.
Jessi:
What you said is just one more example of women assuming the absolute worst about guys. Nice is not automatically synonymous with boring or gutless.
Then again, with the world being as man hating as it is, it's par for the course now that women do not expect men to do anything right.
I'm a Christian woman, but my values are true for all women when it comes to men. God made men different from women for a reason. Men are strong dominating creatures because they have been given dominion over earthly things. Women are submissive because they are supposed to be an assistant to men and are to submit to their OWN HUSBANDS. But that's another topic. I believe that these things may be, dare I say it, instinctual. A woman will find it hard to date a man she doesn't believe can protect her, has a mind of his own, nor is confident in himself. More so, he seems less interested in getting to know one another and more focused on making her "like" him. Desperate even. Your personality has to go past that. Arrogant, self-centered men seem to have things going on in life. Their personalities have depth. They talk about themselves enough for us to get an idea of who they are. The only thing a nice man has going for him is having manners. When you leave us we can only picture you sitting at home doing nothing but waiting to see us again. BORING! We have nothing to go on, to compare you to, to love. You're just a "nice guy". Nice is a given, it's not exciting. It's not spontaneous or different. It's what's expected. Tell a joke, have friends and interests of your own, tell us about YOUR day.
No wonder why women end up with self-centered, arrogant men and then wonder why these men aren't attentive and accomodating.